Episode 2 - What are Dreams? How Musicians Turn Dreams into Songs: Discussion (Part 1)

Hello! In Episode 2, I explore the topic of dreams and how musicians can channel their individual experiences while asleep into writing melodies or songs. I decided to break this topic up into a few parts since it is on the longer side. I give some examples of famous artists such as Paul McCartney (The Beatles) and Sting (The Police) that have utilized the power of dreams to craft a work of art. Enjoy!!  

"Do what though wilt shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

"Discover that which makes you shine, always and forever into infinity"

-Joseph Matthew 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome, one and all, to the Magic Music Podcast. I'm your host, Joseph Matthew, and in this series, we will be discussing various occult and esoteric practices in music, art, and culture. So sit back, relax, and let's explore the unknown together. Enjoy. Hello everyone and welcome to episode number two. So in the last episode I kind of gave like a brief introduction to the podcast and what we were going to be discussing. Talked a little bit about Jimmy Page, Led Zeppelin, and Aleister Crowley and how they kind of intersect with each other. And then about some other stuff as well. So thanks for checking out episode one. But now... something so this is something i alluded to in the first episode like we were going to be discussing dreams and what are dreams like where do they come from right like is it your brain or is it something something else that's being kind of like projected into you basically so i'm going to use chat gpt i asked it some questions and we're just kind of going to go through and just explore topic of dreams together and how how dreams can affect songwriters and musicians and how they can translate their dreams into reality you know i always thought dreams were it was like a way of telling you something you know about yourself that's maybe suppressed or you have this desire for something more. And who knows what that is? That can be money. That can be fame. It can be to get, you know, a bunch of like men and women to like you. Dreams can be anything. You know, you can have really beautiful dreams and really horrific dreams, and those can affect the types of songs that you write. So Let's see, ChatGPT says, I asked, what are dreams? And it replied, dreams are sequences of thoughts, images, sensations, and emotions that occur in the mind during sleep, especially during the REM or rapid eye movement phase when brain activity is high and resembles that of being awake. Kind of goes into a breakdown of stuff, but... Yeah, you know, dreams are, you know, you're really moving around. That's the thing. Like, you're not just, like, laying there and... Ooh, someone texted me.

UNKNOWN: 3:03

Boop.

SPEAKER_00: 3:04

Yeah, it's like your body is reacting, you know, in a way. And, like, you know, if you only get a couple hours of sleep, you're not going to wake up feeling rested. I feel like nine times out of ten. But if you get, like, you know... at least six or seven hours, I think, at least for me. I'm kind of a night owl, so I'll stay up super late, and some nights I'll go to bed super early. For my job, I have to wake up pretty early in the morning, and I've had to adjust some things around because I just changed my work schedule, so I basically have more time in the afternoon, which is pretty nice, and I can take naps if I want to, so... i'm gonna have to get up at 3 45 in the morning 4 a.m and my shift starts at 5 5 to 1 30 which is pretty pretty nice um let's see so a scientific or neurological view brain activity during rem sleep the brain is highly active different regions light up especially the limbic system which handles emotions and the visual cortex However, the prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for logic and reasoning, is less active. This is partly why dreams can feel surreal or illogical. That's pretty interesting because that is kind of stripped away, you know, all the silliness. Reality is just reality. It is how it is, but dreams take it and they remove all the seriousness and of life um so it's whimsical yet things can feel a lot more potent like if you have a really horrific nightmare about some guy chasing you with a knife or something like or something something else like demonic creatures or yeah experiencing some really dark evil stuff that resides in all of us You know, it's just hidden deep down for most people, I feel like. But then, because we suppress that, you know, most of the time we want to help each other and love each other and be kind to each other. But yeah, the world's dark, but it's also light. You know, there are good people, there are bad people. It's very strange. And then to go further, memory and processing. Some theories suggest dreams are a way for the brain to process and consolidate memories, emotions, and experiences from the day. So if you have something really stressful that happened to you that day, whether at work or at home, or if you're just going through some wild shit, that's going to go and plant itself and root itself in your mind. And it's going to continue to grow and flourish. And if you don't confront it, it's going to keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger until it completely explodes. Wow, it's beautiful out right now. It's raining and stuff. I love the rain. The rain's nice. It's really soothing, you know, when you don't have to really deal with the problems that rain has sometimes, like, you know, flooding or your basement getting wet. See, that's very interesting. psychological view okay so sigmund freud believe dreams are a window into the unconscious mind where repressed desires and thoughts express themselves in symbolic form yeah i kind of agree with that things kind of things can kind of come to you in like different ways if something's like suppressed yeah i can kind of flourish in a dream you know something that you want, something that like you're craving. That desire, like desire is like a strong, very strong word. You can have like impulses where you're not really thinking straight, but it's like if you suppress that during the day, it's going to come out at night when you're not conscious. And then Carl Jung, one of my favorites. Love that guy. Thought dreams reveal truths and personal growth potential using symbols that stem from a collective unconscious. Yeah, this idea of a collective unconscious where we experience the same things. Like there's almost like a dream world. Since we're all related, we're all going to have very, very, very similar experiences and some differ, of course. You have different occupations in life. You know, you can become a lawyer or you can become a plumber, which both are great jobs and you can do whatever you want. You really can, but you're revealing things to yourself. It's like looking at yourself in a mirror and you're like scolding yourself, you know, sometimes. And that can make you better. It's like, oh, why did I do this? And I replay it in my head. And then you start to think about, hmm, like if those had like, you know, has a consequence in real life my dream is trying to tell me to like do something to be more kind or to apologize to somebody then you should follow you know follow your dreams like literally and figuratively like if you follow follow your dreams like they can tell you something about yourself i guess it's similar to psychedelics too where it can really like pry open you know your third eye and it like forces you to look at yourself Today, many psychologists see dreams as the brain's way of problem solving, emotional regulation, or stress processing. Yeah, it's like something that's supposed to help you. Like if we didn't dream, like we wouldn't know how to like maybe fix certain things in our lives. And like did humans always dream or... did it come with evolution that's another thing it's like you know did is there like a dream world like did it our brains connect our our brains like connected to something like this invisible tether that connects you to this other realm and is that world connected to other worlds you know it can go on and on and on but no there's really really no way to like study dreams I think like it would be pretty amazing in the future if you can hook someone's brain up to a computer and maybe AI can replicate what that person's like seeing and what's odd to me is that you know these really like crude and you know almost like childlike AI videos are gonna grow they're gonna grow up like I'm going to watch AI get bigger and bigger and better and better. And it's going to be like, I'm watching this thing expand and grow up. That's like, you know, it's, it's oddly a part of us because it is us. We're projecting ourselves into a computer and then maybe AI can like hone in on your brain signals, I guess. And then it can pop up on a screen and you're like, wow, that looks like something you'd see on like Adult Swim. You know what I mean? Like, something really, like, crazy and insane. And, like, the shows I try to avoid, actually, because they really, really mess me up. So I don't really watch all that weird, you know, stuff that's kind of, like, a little intense. It's almost, like, too psychedelic. So if you watch that stuff a lot, like, you know, Godspeed. But I kind of watch just YouTube, honestly, and, like, a couple shows on HBO. um some on netflix but let's see next is philosophical and cultural views in many cultures dreams are seen as messages prophecies or connections to the spiritual realm it's very interesting i'm sure there are different you know tribes throughout time that you know believe that there's something else that's out there you know and it's just a part of this uh big big process sorry guys you gotta type in my laptop stuff okay sorry guys we're back so yeah messages you know yeah it can be sending things to you prophecies yeah like also seeing seeing throughout time you know, the past, present, or future, like maybe you'll see something that is going to come true. Like I had a dream that, I don't know, I saw this young girl like running around and she was probably like maybe four. She had like light brown hair. And I was like, man, like, well, would I have a daughter like that one day? Like I didn't see her face though. So it's like, it only reveals parts to you. So I thought that was interesting. So it's probably trying to reveal the future to me or open up a door where you're kind of just peeking through a little bit. And then the spiritual realm. Yeah, there might be ghosts or deities that are trying to contact you. And yeah, you know what? So I guess I'll kind of tell my story about what happened to me a few years ago. that I kind of, I said in the first podcast, I would kind of go into more detail about it, but I had two great aunts. They were, they were incredible. They were the nicest human beings on the planet. They passed away. My one great aunt, she had, she had dementia, but my other great aunt was like sharp as a tack. You know, she could like remember literally like everything you know from years ago so it's just it's kind of crazy to me it's like you don't know what you're gonna get when you get to a certain age right so it's like you can you get you can get anything you know anything can happen to you anything and it's like you know your life is on this path that keeps going forward it doesn't look back it doesn't look in the rear view that's for sure so they both lived together and one great aunt passed a few years ago and then which is the one that had dementia and then my other great aunt passed you know I think a few few months later so it's like they had this this connection because they were connected to my great grandmother so yeah it's like one of those things great grandmother and great grandfather yeah they were just kind of like tethered together And I thought that was beautiful that they lived together for so long. Because they just enjoyed each other's company. And then we'd go to events and stuff and it would be really nice seeing them. They always ask how I'm doing. And really interested in my life. And seeing what I was into and my hobbies and interests and things like that. Or where I was working at the time. So yeah, it's really nice to... really nice that i was able to be a part of their life in some way shape or form and that you know they were they were a huge part of mine and i miss them dearly think about them a lot and i lived in georgia and this was about i want to say like uh almost like four years ago now i think but you know i was exhausted and i remember laying down for the night And I had this wild dream that, you know, I was kind of like in this water park and then I was kind of swimming a little bit. There was this giant waterfall and that's where the water was coming from. And went up the waterfall and I got to this house and the house was like very, very like homey. And then there was like a sliding door and we just went through and it was just like a living room. And it was my best friend's living room. Like to a T, like replica and everything. Like it was insane. The amount of detail that was literally in every square inch. So I sat down on one of the couches and It wasn't facing the TV. It was off to like the side and like you had to kind of turn your head to the left to like look at the TV. The TV was on the left side of the wall hanging from the top. And I was by myself. I believe there were some other people there. It's a little fuzzy on who. I think my friend was there. But then he leaves and then I was kind of by myself. And so... I was sitting there watching the TV, and it kind of started to morph a little bit. And then I felt like a presence. And then it was like I looked to my right, and my one gradient was there. And then I looked to my left, and then my other gradient was there. And they were the same age as I was, I'm pretty sure. I mean, at the time, I was like 24. 26 I think Around that age. Yeah mid to late 20s when I had the dream So they were like in their mid-20s and they looked They looked beautiful, you know because I saw them die, you know when they were a lot older I didn't get to see them when they were younger and it was really it was trippy because it's almost like they like stepped back in time and started like discussing things with me and I remember like just saying like, wow, like you guys look great. You guys look so beautiful. Like, you know, I really miss you. How's everything been? I have so much to talk to you about. And, you know, they both said like, don't worry, like we're in a good place. You know, you don't have to think that we are, you know, being hurt or this and that, you know, like they were, it was like peaceful and There was this like, you know, this light and this, the kids say aura now. So there was aura about them that was very like a light being. Like, I don't know how to describe it. Like a warmth, like a nice, a nice cozy blanket, a nice hot cozy blanket. You know, you're all warm and fuzzy. You're laying down for the night. So it was like that. It was like, it was like they were hugging me, but without hugging me. And... Yeah, and then I just... I think we just kind of talked about it a little bit more. I think it was kind of like Babel, you know? But it was potent, you know? And they said, you know, we miss everyone. I didn't really go into detail about where they were. I don't know. And I remember... That's when the dream ended and I woke up and I took a minute to process it, like literally like 60 seconds. And I was like, oh my God, like that was the most surreal, lucid dream I've ever had in my life. It was like truly pretty insane. And I just wept. I wept on the side of my bed. And I was just like in shock. And I was just like, it was saddening. But it was also nice because that means I think they were there. It's like I had, I swear I have guardian angels. Like I almost got in like an accident one time, like driving to my grandfather's funeral. This woman just pulled out. She saw me coming and continues to pull out. And I'm like, man, that was a close call. And I just got a new car, I think. Yeah. Just paid it off, actually. So now the bank or state do not own my vehicle so I can drive around as an owner of a nice car. So that's fun. But yeah, it really affected me. You know, deep down, the dream had a potent, a very, very potent impact on my psyche and and just how my attitude changed. I was kind of in this funk and then that brought me back. It was like, I dipped down pretty far and then I shot back up to where I was. And then, you know, we ended up moving around a little bit after that, but it was kind of, it was a nice embrace and to know that they were still kind of with us in some way, shape or form. So it's truly amazing. And it felt real. It felt so incredibly real. I felt them. It was like I felt their touch. And I think that was what really got to me. It's like when people say these prophets have visions. That might be a vision. And I can't describe any other dream like it. Maybe it was just exhaustion or... Depression, like, I have no idea. But this thing just like, they came down. There were like two angels. It was really crazy. And I know on the last podcast, you know, talked about like, you know, religion and stuff. But, you know, my one friend is very, very religious. And the idea of God itself is more explorable to me than just kind of focusing on one aspect of it. Like, I think there's so much to learn, so much to encompass. And if it works for you, then it works for you. And that's a beautiful, beautiful thing. But yeah, I'm just here. I'm here to explore all of the mysticism and all of the strange things that go on and take place. So yeah, so let's just move on. I know I described the dream, but now let's see some fun facts. we dream about two hours per night on average that's that's a pretty long time two hours you dream a lot you can dream about a lot of stuff or have one massive dream which i had the other night that probably maybe only lasted like a minute but it felt it felt like a saga you ever have those saga dreams where it's like you're going on this quest and then you like you wake up and then you fall back asleep and then you continue where you left off in the dream that's like it's like you when you pause a video game that's kind of what it is it's like boop pause boop start and it's really pretty crazy that's pretty crazy it's like you're playing another character in another world which might even be you know a video game Lucid dreams are when you're aware you're dreaming and sometimes you can even control them. That's happened to me before. I've been able to control certain parts of my dreams for a little while and then like the dream almost catches on. Or like you kind of... Yeah, it's a very, very weird sensation. It's like, this isn't reality, but this is very interesting type of thing. And yeah, I've definitely... I don't know, I haven't been able to control an entire dream, just certain little parts of it. And nightmares are often triggered by stress, trauma, or even food or sleep disruptions. Yeah, I mean, that's happened to me. I've had more nightmares when I'm super stressed, super tired, super anxious. Like, you know, I have pretty high anxiety, I would say, but, you know, I don't know if my dreams are like really like that anxiety ridden I think it's more of like they're a little bit calming you know I guess like but yeah the other night I had a pretty bizarre dream like I was at work and like things just kind of morphed and got really weird and like inappropriate and like it was just insane like what happened but let's see so to connect dreams to music. I think they're tethered in some way, shape, or form. You know, I don't want to quote or like, you know, misquote somebody, but I think you can find like on YouTube or like, you know, another platform or like a clip or whatever social media site of John Frusciante from the Red Hot Chili Peppers talking about how he has like this thing he's like he doesn't know where songs come from they come to him it's like the song is begging to be written almost like there's this urge to get this like thing out of you and whether that's just a bunch of notes in in a specific order or like singing a vocal line and expressing yourself in voice there's that that spark that turns into a flame that turns into a brush fire that turns into a forest fire. It keeps, it keeps like elevating, you know, like the more that you write the song, it's like, okay. And then you add more stuff to it. And then you have this, this physical thing that's moving through the air and into people's eardrums. And they're like, wow, that sounds really cool. Like, let's take a song like snow by the red hot chili peppers. Like that whole thing like came to him. And he's also, he's also a genius. By the way, his solo stuff is really, it's so good. It's just so good. It's like alternative. It's like avant-garde. It's like pop. It's like, you know, rock and metal. It's like, it goes all over the place and he makes more electronic music, which I'm really, really super into. I think he likes square pusher. It was like video game music, arcade stuff. Glitchy. glitchy stuff, which I'm really into as well. So I'm surprised or I'm not surprised that he listens to that kind of stuff and more and other types of music to get inspiration. You know, I encourage you guys to listen to a ton of diverse music. You know, I go from listening to reggae to bossa nova to hard rock to to lo-fi like it's just to country like whatever my mood is you know like I've just been listening to I've been doing a bunch of yard work and I put on I was just in the mood for uh Presence by Led Zeppelin you know because since the last podcast I've been thinking about Zeppelin pretty heavy and also reading a lot of Aleister Crowley stuff as well to get more like familiar like I think I might do a review of um of cocaine it's a very short essay that he wrote i guess about the pros and cons of of the drug and how yeah i'll just i can get into that more but how that relates to making a song right like you have guys that are doing this stuff and other drugs in general that can change the flow of the song and the vibe of the song if you get super stoned like that song might be a little bit slower Laid back. Or maybe not. Maybe more aggressive. It depends on the type that you're taking, right? Some things are stimulants. You know, some things are depressants. I'm going to try to think of... So there are a bunch of, you know, famous musicians that have turned their dreams into actual songs. So, you know, the first one that comes to mind is Paul McCartney. I believe he had... some kind of a dream or he woke up with some kind of melody in his head and he like rushed over to the piano and like tried to play it he was convinced I guess he plagiarized it because it felt so like like a complete piece of work um even the lyrics and everything it was it was all there for him and that song was yesterday which is a really beautiful song I'm a big Beatles fan When I was younger, I was kind of like conceited and I was like, oh yeah, like, you know, the Beatles, I know they're like super popular, but like, I don't want to listen to the Beatles. I want to listen to like the Rolling Stones or like other, other really amazing classic rock bands, you know, like Zeppelin or whatever. I thought I was being like edgy by not really listening to them, which when I look back is really, really stupid. I missed out on a lot of cool genres when I was younger. I was mostly into like hard rock and metal, electronic a little bit, you know, but then I kind of branched out as I got older, which I think people do. They're just looking for something cool or something cooler to listen to. They might get tired of a certain genre and they're like, you know what? I've been listening to like rock for like two weeks. I kind of, I'm feeling something more, you know, mellow. And then you'll listen to like more folky stuff. That's what I do. I try to switch it up i guess keith richards also i can't get no satisfaction the rolling stones song it's crazy like he reportedly recorded the riff in his sleep and had like a tape recorder next to his bed woke up mumbled the famous riff into it and then fell back asleep and then Yeah, it had like 40 minutes of snoring afterwards. So it's like, yeah, you can like just, like just came to him. And that's kind of crazy. Like that maybe he was having a dream where it kind of sounds like a horn. You know, like, it's like, I don't know. It's kind of like funky. Then Billy Joel. Let's see. The River of Dreams. so he dreamed the melody and even the lyrics and that's pretty crazy like i think he said that it had like a gospel vibe and he didn't want to record it or something like that and then let's see sting the police every breath you take sting had said that parts of the song came to him in a half-asleep state and he wrote them down very quickly it's often described as a stalker anthem yes it is but he says it was written during a rough personal time, likely fueled by emotional dreams. Yeah, I mean, if you're going through something like that, it's going to manifest, you know, if you let it sink deep inside of you. I have to give ChatGPT credit because it said dreams are basically the original jam session of the subconscious. Yeah, I would agree with that. You take what you heard during the day and it kind of scrambles it up a little bit. And then you're left with this thing that just shoots out to you. It reaches out to you and grabs you for a minute. And you're like, hey, pay attention to me. This is important. You should do this. Don't overthink it. Just do it. That's life. Of course, I tend to overthink things a lot. And I think that a lot of people do. So just kind of like going with the flow of life. So what's the worst that can happen? And then it gets into some, you know, artists and writers and such like Salvador Dali, his work, The Persistence of Memory, William Blake, and different writers, you know, Mary Shelley, who famously wrote Frankenstein. And she said it came during a nightmare, during a stormy night in Geneva while staying with Lord Byron. They were all trying to write ghost stories. So yeah, I mean, if they're writing some scary shit and you're in... If you're in a castle or something, because Lord Byron sounds like he'd be in a castle, not like a little cottage. It doesn't make sense to me. That would have to be some kind of a castle. And it's like a... it's like storming outside it's like really you have to walk around with a lantern and you're writing ghost stories yeah i mean you're gonna you're gonna definitely come up with something that's pretty pretty intense and horrifying you know and the human mind can the human mind creates these things right Or actually, I shouldn't say that. Maybe it's either the human mind or it's coming from another plane. But it channels into the human brain and then we expel it in the way that we visualize it in our mind. Your mind can't project stuff onto paper like you have to. It courses through you and then you take action and then you do that thing. You are almost instructed to do by something. possessions you know if you're possessed by something whether it's like you know an emotion or an actual being or an entity that takes over you it's really terrifying to experience that let's see and then robert louis stevenson who wrote dr jekyll mr hyde literally dreamed of the main scene where Jekyll turns into Hyde. And then he woke up, he wrote it furiously. His wife said she saw him acting out scenes in his sleep. So if he's like moving around and shit, you know, he's gonna say some things or like, you know, do some things. It's pretty nuts. It's like he himself, he himself is transforming into this like monster. It's monstrosity. And then also, Edgar Allan Poe, my homeboy, That's pretty cool. Most writers were writing about happy, sunny things and joy because they were too scared to face the atrocities of life. and the darkness and Edgar Allan Poe he he kind of edged with the darkness a little bit you know he like played with it flirted with it I don't know a lot about him but he just seems like an interesting interesting character for sure sure did a lot of strange things